Anyway, this Gen-Xer here remembers a time not terribly long ago when there was a bit more respect for opposing viewpoints in politics, such that a cartoon like this might have been considered a bit over the top. But it's a crazy fractured-up country we live in.
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"this Gen-Xer here remembers a time not terribly long ago when there was a bit more respect for opposing viewpoints in politics, such that a cartoon like this might have been considered a bit over the top. But it's a crazy fractured-up country we live in."
ReplyDeleteLet me guess, "this Gen-Xer" did very poor in school when it came to U.S. history. We are nowhere near close to the fractured country of years' past.
Hell, the era right after that little...well, I guess in your estimation...tussle was not very peaceful for those having to deal with carpetbaggers.
Also, we are not even close to starting to burn political opponents'
homes or effigies of opposing leaders like back in the early history of the United States of America.
Wow, John, you're right. That those things happened 150 to 200 years ago means that things are getting better vis-à-vis fifteen, twenty, thirty, fifty years ago.
ReplyDeleteI did quite well in California's version of high school American History, and it is my realization that things can get really, really bad in America is what has me so worried now about how fractured things are becoming.
That one of our two major political parties has a frontrunner who has been somewhat direct about the possibility of secession for the state he governs does not bode well.
ReplyDeleteI participated in one of the major Tea Party groups for a while, mostly to observe and occasionally to interact, and the anger, fear, willingness to split away from the Republic and to take up arms to do it was clearly there.
"Whatever the Republicans touch turns to shit."
ReplyDeleteThat's not what that comic means? Then I don't get it.
I'm not fooling myself into thinking that we might actually get a real president this time, but why shouldn't states be allowed to leave the Union when they deem it necessary for their own survival? Especially, as one certain San Francisco court is hell-bent on making the rules for the rest of the country while stomping out States' rights?
ReplyDeleteI don't remember ever signing up to be part of this nonsense when I was brought into this world through no fault of my own. To be forced to pay taxes on everything I earn and own until I die. To have no real rights of freedom to come and go as I please in this world of ours while having to constantly register and pay for even short jaunts anywhere (once they have been approved of course through licenses, passports, mandatory car insurance, and visas--if I really want to see the rest of the world). Where are the people who don't fit into this broken two-party system supposed to go and be left alone without fear of reprisals from either party? Try building your own abode without first getting the privilege to pay for all the permissions you will need from the government, especially in California (try to dig a well there to satisfy your thirst without the proper, several thousand dollar (and that's if you can), permits. I know I certainly don't want to go to their version of Coventry, but where can "I" go to live "my" life, as "I" see fit, without all this governmental input?
Maybe we can't really fracture soon enough!
From out of nowhere comes an insult from John. I certainly did not see that one coming, but I guess some people cannot accept differing opinions. LOL.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, I am surprised there are Tea Partiers in Hawaii. Who would have thought?
John, not sure what to say as you answered your own questions, including with your reference to Coventry.
ReplyDeleteThose who wish to fracture the country, as in break the country into pieces, may think that whatever they build will be better than whatever we have now. They can't fathom that the same problems from before will follow us because they are within us. More ominously, they can't imagine that the New America or New Texas they wish to build might actually be even worse because the monied interests that have us do their bidding now will be even more powerful in a new state picking up the pieces and re-forming.
Sigh. But I was talking more about the electorate being fractured, a social fracturing, not the physical entity of the country. A fractured electorate is one where the good and workable ideas are given no chance to bear fruit, as people hunker down into their respective echo chambers and demonize the other.
I'm sorry you feel so stifled and suffocated. I'm sorry that the burden of living in a world of 7 billion people or 310 million people is so great because it means you can't just tap a well into a water supply in a desert entity that must provide water for nearly 20 million people and the industries they work in.
I'm genuinely sorry. I would like to mold our country into one where the regulations are reasonable and not onerous. That will require two things. First, an end to monied politics like those bolstered by the recent Citizens United decision that allow deep pockets to dominate and form the "debate" in such a way that they can protect and enhance their interests and, perhaps most importantly, drown out dissenting voices that might point to how their excesses are bad for the country and its citizens, along with an end to privately funded campaigns that force politicians to do the bidding of their monied sponsors in order to get elected and then re-elected.
Second, it requires sides to listen to each other, including opponents, and provide fact-based evidence, so that workable compromises can be reached. Not merely compromises, but workable ones, grand solutions. Hard to do when one side is convinced the other side is evil.
If our country is so broken it cannot be fixed, then maybe it should be fractured, but we are oh, so far from it being nearly that bad, and it is terribly ironic that those who think it is so broken are the ones breaking it with their insistence on depicting everyone who doesn't think like them as evil, socialist, anti-American, etc.
If the country is so broken it can't be fixed, then fine, go fracture it. But if someone merely thinks it's broken because their favorite political candidate says the government is forcing them to get government injections that will make them mentally retarded, then I don't would rather not see my country sacrificed to such idiocy.
JMCampbell wrote:
ReplyDelete"Whatever the Republicans touch turns to shit."
That's not what that comic means? Then I don't get it.
If you follow the link, you'll see I got this comic from a conservative site. They send me their daily "news" updates ever since I bought a bumper sticker from them (a gag gift for my mom, who voted for McCain but doesn't care much for Sarah Palin).
As I understand it, the purpose of the cartoon was to show that this is how the Republicans will "pass" the American Jobs Act about which Obama kept chanting, "Pass this bill."
So it wasn't a clever cartoon on their part, but they usually aren't. In the end, my interpretation is more clever, more amusing, and apparently more believable.
John, I do like how your Thomas Jefferson quote...
ReplyDelete"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
... can be interpreted as a swipe against the ignorance of some of the Tea Party, of which Michele Bachmann's and Rick Perry's anti-scientific utterings are emblematic.
itissaid, I joined a Tea Party group because I wanted to see what they're really talking about and really thinking. I don't care to have MSNBC tell me. I do support the idea of balanced budgets and non-intrusive government, though most of them and I differed on where that line was.
ReplyDeleteSome were Ron Paul groupies who thought that virtually nothing should be provided by the government, even at the state and local level. Others felt that government has an important role but we're paying too much for it. I obviously got along better with those types.
Some were unapologetically Islamaphobic, and racist against various groups. Obama was nearly universally despised and with some it was very obvious that him being Black was part of it, but there were others for whom racism played no part in their dislike of Obama.
But this was an online group, not a local meet-up. I did try to see if there were people meeting locally in Hawaii, but it turned out to be one small group on another island (Maui, I think).
I never misrepresented my views while part of that national forum, and I even linked this site on my profile page, for all to see if they wanted. I spoke in favor of things where I genuinely felt we were on the same page and presented my viewpoints in others.
But I eventually got kicked out, though I was never told why. The person in charge is quite the autocrat and makes decisions that cannot be appealed. I think what happened is someone sent the chief a link to this post where I had made some candid remarks about the Tea Party, and they decided I was a plant or something.
To this day, on every computer I've used to participate in the forums, I get the same "Sorry, Kushibo. You have been suspended" message. My repeated emails asking to know why have gone unanswered. I don't even get a courtesy email, even though I got the director's back and sent him several urgent emails back when someone who really was a plant had posted a picture of a lemon party on the site.
All that did was convince them that they're right about everything.
Anyway, I should write a Songagi Consortium post on this someday. The problem is that my discussions are locked in there without me being able to access them.
John needs to just get over it and I am surprised that you, Kushibo, would take him so seriously. I don't know of a time when people never complained about the government. And to be sure, there are valid, legitimate complaints. But to make such a fuss when it is not affecting your life as much as you make it out to is really just an attitude problem, John in DAEJEON. No point in stewing in your own anger, which makes it unpleasant for yourself and others around you.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, Kushibo, perhaps providing that link wasn't the smartest thing to do? But you can understand why they'd be a bit suspicious. Even if you weren't a plant, some people like to keep their plans secret.
If you want to copy your discussions, just enter as a guest or create a new username and search for yourself.
itissaid, John's a good guy. He recommends television shows for me. It's just that he's from Texas, and they think differently down there. In fact, I think the "big field" in "大田" (Taejŏn/Daejeon) may refer to the vast Texas prairie.
ReplyDeleteHe's a thoughtful guy and, although I agree he may be stewing a bit in his own frustration, I think he's worth listening to.
Anyway, providing the link to my site may have gotten me kicked out, but I was just trying to be transparent and not hide anything. I hoped, if they were to go looking to see who I was, that they'd find posts like the one in the "bumper sticker" link above, which expressed cautious support for Sarah Palin before I realized she was a hopeless cerebral lightweight with no intellectual curiosity about the how things work in a world where she hoped to be a leader.
As for trying retrieve my discussions, the problem is that new membership is tightly controlled. They apparently check IPs and other stuff individually and err on the side of caution by tossing anyone who even remotely looks like someone they've already booted out. When I'm at my parents' house in Orange County next time, I'll try with my mom's new iMac.
Currently, I'm back in Texas and stewing over that fact that our govenor/wannabe future president is stiffing us Texas taxpayers for his security detail as he travels the country and overseas. You would think that he wouldn't want to sabotage his campaign this early on in the process by pissing off his home state voters.
ReplyDeleteItissaid, "I don't know of a time when people never complained about the government." That was my point---and that it has actually been much worse in the past.
Luckily, most of the public is apathetic and, unless the economy really goes south, things will keep on going pretty much the same no matter who is in the catbird seat even though T.J.'s great idea to get rid of those who become entrenched in the power, and money, that is Washington every 20 years will never see the light of day.
Basically, any, and all, political conjecture is like pissing into a strong wind.