Monday, June 1, 2009

Quelling dissent on the Wagner Report

I tried to take the time to muddle through Roboseyo's report on the Report (i.e., the Wagner Report), and by that I mean it was a long read, not a poorly written one. Anyway, I was all set to make a few pertinent points, but then I pressed COMMENTS and saw this:
NEW COMMENTS HAVE BEEN DISABLED FOR THIS POST BY A BLOG ADMINISTRATOR.
I'm sorry, but the Wagner Report is off on a lot of issues. It's a conclusion looking for a justification: we don't want to comply with what we see as invasive measures, so let's see if we can make a case that they're discriminatory, even though Korean nationals are subject to similar invasions of privacy. Moreover, it is antagonistic rather than collaborative, uses self-serving but faulty evidence to make its case, and ultimately fails to do anything to dispel suspicion against the group it purports to fight for. For starters, there's this:
Also, the E-2 visa policy validates the stereotypes that we have been fighting, by putting the government's stamp of approval on it.
From a social standpoint, not a legal one, the E2 policies, if implemented, would in and of themselves burn off the cloud of suspicion. In other words, the policy would invalidate these stereotypes for the teachers that pass through these regulations. You think I'm a drug user, criminal, or pedophile? Well, I passed the E2 test, so I'm USDA-certified safe.

I'm not going to rehash how Korean nationals are already subject to the invasions of privacy that the Wagner Report claims are only being applied to E2's. It's been done, it's been said.

I'll just say now that I think the way this battle being fought this way may not end so well. Guess what? E2's are guest workers, not permanent residents or citizens. Guest workers. And while Wagner makes a sound argument that retroactively enforcing new entry regulations for people who already have their E2 visas is violating the rights of people already resident in the ROK, there is a simple workaround solution for this if someone in the government feels piqued by the Wagner Report's call for the government to apologize for human rights violations: Make E2 visas non-extendable in country. There: your "already resident" status ends when your visa period ends. Reset, start over.

In other words, after one year, you apply again for a new E2 visa, during which you are forced to be outside the country, at least for a week without any legal right of residency in the ROK. Then you have to prove you are drug-free, crime-free, and a non-pedophile while sitting in Fukuoka.

That's not what I'm recommending and I hope it doesn't happen, but Kushibo has been around long enough to remember when the one-day visa turnaround did not exist. When I was a teenager, I remember people needed six fu¢king weeks to go and get a visa — outside South Korea.

Back in the US, in college, I've worked in a daycare center and I worked for a defense contractor. Both jobs required a background check and peeing into a cup. Get over yourselves. Korea has a right to enforce a drug-free policy and check for criminal backgrounds among people who are entering the country whose backgrounds are mostly unknown.

If Wagner wants to take up a human rights case, come over to Hawaii and help out my friend from Iran who was called in by the local FBI and grilled, after which he was told he had to close his bank account... something about non-permanent resident Iranian nationals not being able to have bank accounts in the US or something.

And when you're done with that, how about directing ATEK toward the case of Matt Robinson and finding a way to work with NHIC to allow foreign nationals to bridge their insurance between visas. That is the kind of help that is needed, not this human rights abuse fantasy about peeing into a fu¢king cup.

14 comments:

  1. The truth of the matter is that the Korean government sees no need to put protections in place for E-2 visa holders. There is supply inelasticity of teachers in the English teaching market here in Korea. It doesn't matter how many people are cheated or how bad you are treated or the draconian and embarassing requirements they set forth, this is still the prime market for teaching and making money; the teachers will keep coming.

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  2. I understand the objections people have to the report, to Professor Wagner, and to ATEK itself (although the report wasn't issued by ATEK). But we really get tired of reading the same posters posting the same objections again and again and again and again. Rob knows this as well as anyone, as he's devoted plenty of Hub of Sparkle to the ATEK issue and to giving voice to dissent. Each post on this, whether on Rob's site, on Hub of Sparkle, on ROK Drop, on Gusts of Popular Feeling, or on Dave's, becomes two or three guys beating dead horses. My site has happily been free of these trolls, and though I encourage dissent---especially about a group that professes to speak for all of us---that's really all they are.

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  3. I feel your pain, Brian. But things will never change here. And you and I and all the rest of us are thought of by Koreans as the same as when we just got off the plane. Our years of experience here means nothing to them.

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  4. nb wrote:
    The truth of the matter is that the Korean government sees no need to put protections in place for E-2 visa holders.

    I know the people involved in policy-making (or at least, who used to be) and the problem is not a lack of desire to protect E2 visa holders but a lack of understanding of what the E2 visa holders need.

    This is where an organization like ATEK or KOTESOL could come in and work with them, but the in-your-face human rights complaint and face-losing request for an apology will likely cause too much antagonism for that to happen.

    Utterly wasted opportunities because some people don't want to pee in a cup, which they would have to do in so many jobs back home, particularly if they work with kids.

    There is supply inelasticity of teachers in the English teaching market here in Korea.

    Yes, I think you're right about that, which is why Korea can afford to put in place strict regulations and still expect people to come.

    And this is where ATEK is barking up the wrong tree: The new E2 regulations will cull the herd, leaving, for the most part, better teachers who are considerably less of a lightning rod.

    The E2 regulations are a win-win situation for those who can pass them. And at least when it comes to criminal background checks and drug checks, I'm not so sure we'd want teachers who can't pass them.

    ATEK is completely wrong when they say the regulations confirm suspicions of negative stereotypes; they actually dispel them because they confirm for all who went through them that the stereotypes don't fit.

    It doesn't matter how many people are cheated or how bad you are treated or the draconian and embarassing requirements they set forth, this is still the prime market for teaching and making money; the teachers will keep coming.

    The hagwon system is in need of reform, and ATEK is wasting opportunities to do something to change it. Burning bridges is not a good first impression.

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  5. Brian wrote:
    But we really get tired of reading the same posters posting the same objections again and again and again and again.

    Okay, fair enough. But I guess what got me miffed was that the "comments closed" did not show up on the original page; I didn't see it until after I'd collected notes and had arranged a careful response. Only then did I see comments wouldn't be allowed.

    And I did have something new to add, specifically that ATEK has it completely diametrically wrong when they say that the E2 policy would validate stereotypes.

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  6. nb wrote:
    I feel your pain, Brian. But things will never change here.

    You are full of shit when you things like that, nb. I don't know if it's because you're ignorant of all the changes that have occurred or if you're just so hopelessly wallowing in negativity and self-pity that you can't see anything else.

    I've been living in Seoul off and on since I was a teenager and I've seen plenty of changes. In the early to mid-1990s, foreign nationals were completely shut out of the NHIC. Visas allowed no "second jobs" whatsoever, and they took six weeks outside of the country, which really locked people into a job. There was no severance pay protection until a bunch of foreign pilots — who made more than their Korean counterparts — sued for severance and won, despite Asiana's argument that their higher salary meant they didn't warrant severance. Property ownership in one's own name was impossible for foreign nationals and it was impossible to get a credit card.

    One by one the government has been working on these things — when they find out about stuff they actually work pretty effectively to do something.

    And while I hate the tu quoque argument, do you have any idea what a non-immigrant visa holder's life is like in the US? You are the equivalent of an H1 in the US, and that means you have no anchor in the ROK, just like the H1, no matter how long you have lived there. But if you marry a Korean national, you have loads of freedom accorded you (and that's also something that has changed dramatically for foreign males marrying Korean national females).

    So please, stop spreading around negative bullshit. I'm so absolutely sick of the K-blog commentariat wallowing in this whiney b.s. about how terrible things are and how they'll never change. It's ignorant. Just plain ignorant, not to mention borderline racist, depending on the source.

    I'm a foreign national in Korea (US citizen) and I own my own home. In my name, with a big fat loan from the bank, all in my name, no one else's. I did it on my own, and even renegotiated my mortgage before I left for Hawaii.

    I have had expats tell me I am flat out lying when I say that I own my own home. Either that, they say, or I have been somehow duped into believing I own it. Because they have heard in the K-blog echo chambers over and over again how xenophobic Korea makes property ownership impossible for foreign nationals, so I can't possibly be right.

    It's just plain stupid. Stupid.

    And you and I and all the rest of us are thought of by Koreans as the same as when we just got off the plane. Our years of experience here means nothing to them.

    I absolutely agree that's a problem. And this is why ATEK should support a raising of standards such as the new E2 regulations. Don't let ATEK kid you: the Wagner Report's recommendations are for dismantling them and having sensitivity training about human rights abuse, not about putting in something that will allow English teachers to lay claim to being appropriate individuals to be in a classroom.

    nb, were you in Korea before the six-month Canadian tourist visas? English teaching was a different profession then. English teachers were not ashamed to say that's what they do and nobody mocked them.

    The E2 regulations are a first step toward restoring the English teacher reputation.

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  7. "The truth of the matter is that the Korean government sees no need to put protections in place for E-2 visa holders."

    If the Korean government will have to put protection for E2 visa holders, then let that protection cover the rest of the foreigners (professionals, students, etc). If that cheating thing does exist (?), im very sure its worst for those groups that are not represented.

    By the way Kushibo, do you have some plans to provide some balance argument to that Wagner recommendation or do you know anyone who will? Since i am ignorant of all the matters mentioned in that report (i know its none of my business, but i just want to educate myself about things thats happening all around me), i dont want to comment for now. I want to see first both sides of the story.

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  8. I thought I stated pretty clearly at the end of the post that comments were closed so that we could keep commentary about the report in one place: that the Popular Gusts page where the report was originally posted.

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  9. Yeah, at the end of the post, after I'd prepared something lengthy about something up in the earlier part.

    I suppose I can be faulted for not reading everything completely before responding to one key point toward the top. But when I got the "comments disabled" message, I took my comments here instead.

    Actually, I sort of regret not having changed my post title when it became clear that my post was primarily about the bogus notion that E2 regulations will validate stereotypes. Maybe I'll put up a little update, though this comment should suffice for explanation.

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  10. On second thought, I don't know if I'd like to leave a comment there. It's an ongoing discussion and I'd be bringing in a response to a completely different post that has Roboseyo's highlights, not Matt's, of the report.

    And it looks like it's already pretty testy there.

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  11. Yeah, okay, so I left a comment. It's #83, which guarantees that most of those who read it will be the fanatical or the insomnia-ridden.

    I'm back to square one, Roboseyo, where I'm disappointed you directed people from your well-researched (but ripe for discussion) to a forum that (through no fault of Matt's) is already full of animosity and is tl;dr.

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  12. that's not the last time I'll write about Wagner's report, Kushibo.

    However, I don't think that HIV or any other kinds of checks will do the trick of restoring the reputation of English teachers when we continue to be scapegoats and whippingboys for an irresponsible media more than eager to ply in stereotypes instead of statistical truths. (see also pages 9-13 of the report)

    http://populargusts.blogspot.com/2007/09/brief-history-of-scapegoating-english.html

    headehar is the verification word. awesome.

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  13. Roboseyo wrote:
    that's not the last time I'll write about Wagner's report, Kushibo.

    Good, I welcome the chance to reply on your blog. You and Matt both have good and thoughtful blogs, but this issue is so contentious that it brings out the worst in some people. Also, I question the wisdom of channeling all that "energy" into what would be a long Marmot-esque comments section. If it's too unwieldy for someone to peruse, it becomes irrelevant.

    However, I don't think that HIV or any other kinds of checks will do the trick of restoring the reputation of English teachers when we continue to be scapegoats and whippingboys for an irresponsible media more than eager to ply in stereotypes instead of statistical truths.

    I don't agree at all, for a variety of reasons, not least among them is that the press is not beating up on foreign teachers for the sake of beating up on foreign teachers.

    The real or imagined bad behavior of some/many English teachers is part of an overall perception where teachers — yes, including Korean teachers — are seen as abusing their position and the public's trust.

    (see also pages 9-13 of the report)I read through the report but don't have time to go back and fish through it right now (I'm headed for Northern California tomorrow), but I do recall thinking that relying on actual drug convictions is a self-serving but ultimately deceptive treatment of the drug issue.

    Simply put, drug convictions fail to represent actual drug use for several reasons. Do you think that if drug arrests and convictions go up 25% in one year that actual drug use has gone up one-fourth? More likely, the difference is intensity of focus.

    Secondly, drug convictions do not necessarily represent all drug cases. I'll have to confer with my old criminology prof about this, but I believe that if people are arrested, admit wrongdoing, and leave the country, they do not count as convictions because they don't go through the court system the same as someone who goes on trial.

    In other words, the numbers Wagner uses represent only a small fraction of cases AND they are an apples-and-oranges comparison with what happens to Korean nationals who are arrested for drugs (and don't have the option of quiet deportation).

    English teaching was once a respected profession, Roboseyo. What happened? Slackers took over, and judging by some of the comments I get when I talk about Korea's drug prohibition, it's not a small number of people engaging in this illegal activity that is highly frowned upon by parents and the general public.

    Standards are what will save you. Right now, other than a B.A. or B.S., there essentially aren't any.

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  14. Don't blame Korea for your lack of character. I see too many English teachers doing just that, failing to recognize that their OWN behavior has the most effect on how Koreans perceive and treat them. Foreigners get a lot of privileges in Korea, ones that are not normally accorded to regular Koreans, but you rarely hear about that. Try being a foreigner in another country like America. Do you think the natives will be so open and curious about getting to know you like many are in Korea? Sometimes, one needs to learn to appreciate what is around them and not be so judgmental. If some whinepats were more understanding, they would realize that they don't have as many problems as they like to complain they do.

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