The Korea Herald and Korea Times (and other Korean media) are reporting on the efforts by the chinbo "progressive" groups to disrupt the opening of the capital's "Hi Seoul" festival, which has always been marketed as a way for Seoul to show itself off and for foreign residents to join in as Seoulites.
Well, apparently the remnants of last year's Mad Cow protestors thought it was the "Hi 소 Festival," because they came out in force:
The conflict further escalated as the demonstrators reached Seoul City Hall, where the opening ceremony of the Hi Seoul Festival was being held. Tourists from around the world were frightened by the violent demonstrations.These people have few supporters among the general public, and by doing this in front of what is supposed to be (a) a happy celebration and (b) in front of — gasp! — foreign visitors and guests, they have lost most of what little sympathy they'd had from the general public. Both (a) and (b) represent losses of face, while (b) is an egregious violation of the don't-air-dirty-laundry rule.
As participants occupied the festival stage, protesting the police blockade in the area, the police called off all the ceremonies and sent Korean home and tourists to their hotels.
Bad, bad, bad move, you pro-Pyongyang, anti-Seoul, anti-corporate, anti-US, anti-Japan chinbo groups.
Brian in Chŏllanamdo has an interesting post tying this event in with the Mad Cow protests from last year.
"These people have few supporters among the general public, and by doing this in front of what is supposed to be (a) a happy celebration and (b) in front of — gasp! — foreign visitors and guests, they have lost most of what little sympathy they'd had from the general public."
ReplyDeleteSounds logical, but then again you have to remember that these people just don't care what the outside world thinks. They are hard-core, frog-in-a-well ultranationalists. And on top of that you have perhaps 30% of the South Korean populace who are fellow "jinbo" travellers. Plus you have the current economic crisis to destabilize society further.
Even if they can only mobilize 20 or 30% of the populace, that's still a lot of people, and all it takes is the "right" issue to set things off again -- especially it it involves the big, bad U.S. of A., of course.
No doubt, they are plotting further as we speak, and they are not to be underestimated. That was Lee Myung-bak's greatest mistake last summer, after all.
Scott, have you dropped all pretense at being a liberal, liberating yourself to Korea-bash like those that came before you?
ReplyDeleteYour sophomoric analysis is dull
emily wrote:
ReplyDeleteScott, have you dropped all pretense at being a liberal,
I noticed that, too. But in all fairness to King Baeksu, who has been observing various chinbo-led demonstrations, it's probably easy to see how ethically bankrupt much of the Korean left is thanks to those groups.
liberating yourself to Korea-bash like those that came before you?
Frankly, I don't really see what he wrote as Korean bashing. He's knocking a specific group of people who voluntarily make up a particularly egregious group of people manipulating a larger group of people.
For the same reason, when I criticize apologist right-wingers in Japan, I'm not Japan-bashing, even though I've frequently been called a Japan basher.
Your sophomoric analysis is dull.
I don't think King Baeksu needs me to defend him, but I don't think anything he wrote here is necessarily sophomoric, although I don't agree with him that the chinbo fellow travelers make up 30% of the South Korean populace. I think it's probably one third to one half that.
After my exam is over tomorrow, I might respond to King Baeksu's remarks in more detail.
Emily, if you want to equate "reactionary totalitarianism" with "liberalism," go right ahead.
ReplyDeleteOn the other had, perhaps you don't fully grasp the nature of these groups. Here are a few protest reports from last year and earlier this year, in case you are interested:
1. "A Funny Thing Happened to Me on the Way to City Hall Tonight":
http://www.kingbaeksu.com/bbs/view.php?id=bug&page=7&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=1157
2. "Another Saturday Night in Chongno":
http://www.kingbaeksu.com/bbs/view.php?id=bug&page=7&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=1249
3. "Return of the Candlelights":
http://www.kingbaeksu.com/bbs/view.php?id=bug&page=2&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=1433
I agree with Kushibo regarding the number of "fellow 'jinbo' travellers" in South Korea. In fact, I would imagine it's even lower than his conservative estimates.
ReplyDeleteThe conspicuous nature of the lunatic Leftist protests--and above all the ill-reported circumstances that led to the election of DJ and Roh--have given the incorrect impression that South Korea is a Leftist country.
Mt percentages are admittedly guestimates, but are based on my interactions with thousands of South Koreans over a decade. I would still say that 20-30% are left or liberal, and 20-30% conservative and the rest somewhere in the middle. Obviously, however, people here have grown noticeably more conservative as a whole in the past 5 years or so.
ReplyDeleteI mean, you've got the two provinces of Cholla which vote pretty reliably for liberal-left candidates during elections, and then millions more in the greater Seoul area. Plus the 386 generation tends to trend more liberal-left compared to other generations. I'm sure there are surveys and statistics somewhere. but I can't be bothered to search for now.
Baeksu,
ReplyDeleteI think you are--perhaps deliberately--conflating people who are slightly left of the center or progressive (sort of like the folks who vote Democratic in the U.S.) with the hardcore Communist sympathizers.
WJC, "progressive" doesn't automatically mean "communist." I consider myself progressive but am certainly not a communist.
ReplyDeleteWere you here last summer? Hundreds of thousands of people came out into the streets at a time. They most definitely were sympathetic to many of the goals and values articulated by these groups, or else they wouldn't have been there in the first place.
Won Joon Choe wrote:
ReplyDeleteThe conspicuous nature of the lunatic Leftist protests--and above all the ill-reported circumstances that led to the election of DJ and Roh--have given the incorrect impression that South Korea is a Leftist country.
Despite back-to-back wins by "the left," I don't feel the election of DJ and Roh MH represents a substantial shift to the left. Particularly with DJ, it was more of an acceptance that maybe the left could do okay, especially in light of what appeared to be gross economic mismanagement by the Kim YS administration. I mean, the old standby that the leftists would tank the economy didn't hold any water when the economy had tanked under the conservatives' watch.
And with Roh MH, he had to reassure everyone — including the Korean electorate — that he was not anti-American and he wasn't going to scrap the ROK-US alliance. That's not something you'd have to do if the electorate was comfortably leftist themselves. DJ and Roh MH won by slim margins, largely because their primary opposition was so terribly unpopular.
King Baeksu wrote:
ReplyDeletePlus the 386 generation tends to trend more liberal-left compared to other generations.
386, as I recall, refers to people in their 30s, educated in the '80s, and born in the '60s. This was a description that was apt a decade ago. The first child of the 1960s turned 30 in 1990 and the last child of the 1960s turns 40 this year.
There's a point to this: the college students who proudly toppled the Chun regime may have been eager to get a non-govt type like DJ or even Roh elected, but since then the reality of political incompetence and treachery has set in: the left has proven themselves no more noble than the right.
I still think DJ was on the whole a good president, but his legacy is tainted by his summit-for-cash scandal and other things. Roh MH proved to be incompetent and largely ineffectual — not to mention that he showed even a leftist might feel the need to send troops to help out the US.
A left-leaning president was an ideal that hadn't been realized in Korea before the 386 generation started flexing their muscles. But once they got their people into the Blue House, reality set in.
Moreover, and this is probably equally important: The 386ers are not 20-something or early 30-something anymore. They're in their 40s and some pushing 50, and the near cliché of conservatism with age has set in.
That happened to me almost immediately after college: I switched from being a near socialist to being a moderate Democrat, though that's as far to the right as I'll probably ever get. If I ever do rip up my party membership, I'll become an Independent, never a Republican.
Won Joon Choe wrote:
ReplyDeleteI think you are--perhaps deliberately--conflating people who are slightly left of the center or progressive (sort of like the folks who vote Democratic in the U.S.) with the hardcore Communist sympathizers.
I was thinking the same thing.
King Baeksu wrote:
WJC, "progressive" doesn't automatically mean "communist." I consider myself progressive but am certainly not a communist.
You're right in a general sense. But as a practical matter in Korea, the groups that call themselves chinbo are clearly pro-Pyongyang in organization, word, and deed. I guess one could say they have co-opted the word.
And as I wrote before, I don't think much of the left or the people who sympathize with certain issues coming from the left realize (or wants to realize) the extent and manner in which the organization is pro-Pyongyang. Even, I dare say, to the point that some are getting marching orders from DPRK sources.
Were you here last summer? Hundreds of thousands of people came out into the streets at a time. They most definitely were sympathetic to many of the goals and values articulated by these groups, or else they wouldn't have been there in the first place.
Yes, because the typical factors ere there: This is an issue that resonated with many non-chinbo types because of certain issues presented in a certain way: an egregious example of Seoul kowtowing to an influence-wielding, manipulative Washington, in a way that was — according to the mainstream news media! — highly detrimental to the public's health.
As I've said before, Korea's agenda-driven media are such that even if only half of what they say were true, it would be enough to evoke outrage in a reasonable person. Koreans are generally distrustful of the Korean media, but I think many have a sense that even if the details can't be trusted, there might be some "there" there.
Another factor is the superior organization skills of the chinbo groups, who are more Internet-savvy and are trying to organize people who are Internet-connected and don't have regular jobs. They have long known that a large enough spectacle can make them seem large and formidable and, by extension, their views more widely accepted.
They are the blowfish of the political world. They know that some politicians will cave to them if they make enough noise, and they are hoping that something similar will eventually result, vis-à-vis US forces in Korea, from their anti-USFK efforts.
Sorry, but I don't believe the spin that all 386ers have done an about-face and are all now right-wingers or conservatives. And for better or worse, the term "386 generation" has stuck and is still in wide use.
ReplyDeleteThere are still plenty of liberals and progressives among the 386ers. They are Korea's baby boomers. How many American baby boomers are still liberal/progressive? Quite a lot, actually. See Obama and the present composition of the US Congress.
King Baeksu wrote:
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I don't believe the spin that all 386ers have done an about-face and are all now right-wingers or conservatives.
Well, I don't think anybody said "all," nor would I say that those who have switched have become "right-wingers" or even mere conservatives. I'd guess a lot of them are moderates now who go with which person seems to make more sense. Of course, I may be projecting, although the closest I get to supporting Republicans is a symbolic protest vote against the Democrat. Although I did vote for Schwarzenegger during his reelection; only time ever I've knowingly voted for a Republican, but it was a rare case where I thought he deserved it and I wasn't terribly excited about the Democrat running.
And for better or worse, the term "386 generation" has stuck and is still in wide use.
True that, but I was just pointing out that it's been a decade and a half (and three presidential elections) since that term was first coined, and a lot has changed since then.
There are still plenty of liberals and progressives among the 386ers.
True.
They are Korea's baby boomers. How many American baby boomers are still liberal/progressive? Quite a lot, actually. See Obama and the present composition of the US Congress.
You're right, loads of them are. And in fact there are people like my dad, lifelong Republicans who now vote Democrat because they feel the GOP has lurched too far to the right.
However, I think a lot of the reason that so many baby boomers have continued to support the Dems is that the Dems have themselves become moved toward the pragmatic middle, particularly with Bill Clinton and now with Obama.
Meanwhile the Republicans have also moved to the right, some of them so far right you can't see them because of the curvature of the Earth. Baby boomers, who as a whole have seen the country and world become more open and tolerant, largely can't stomach the values of the Far Right, which is one big reason the GOP is in trouble.